Low budget, upgradeable

[David Heizer]

So I borked my 8-year-old custom-build with a spill, and need to replace it. And money is tight right now.

What I am looking to do, to the extent possible, is design an inexpensive build now that will do the job, and that has optimal upgradeability over the next year or two. So I need to identify which components can go from 0-60 reliably (e.g., RAM), and which ones I'm likely to have a much harder time upgrading (and so should buy max. value now); e.g., motherboard/case? I don't really have a set budget - technically, it's $0, but I need to replace my previous machine, so my budget is whatever it takes to do that.

What I had: all I know now is that it was an AMD 8-core (AMD 900 chipset), and I vaguely remember perhaps 2.5GHz? It had an Nvidia Ge-Force GPU, and I had recently maxed the RAM to 32GB. (Ironically, the RAM survived the spill unscathed, but I understand DDR3s are obsolete for a new build.)

What happened: The spill hit my keyboard (ironically, $10 keyboard working fine now after a wash), drizzled off the back of the keyboard shelf, through the top of the case at my feet, and down the vertical motherboard *right* where the CPU plugs in. Also managed to fritz the GPU below.

What survived: 256GB SSD hard drive with Windows 7 (I'm advised it won't run on modern machines - true?) - all my SATA HDD file storage. SATA CD/DVD drive. (All of this off at one end, well away from the spill.) The RAM I won't be able to use. All my fans. *I think* the power supply. (The tech at Fry's didn't trust it, but I think more on principle than evidence - does it make sense to see if it works for an hour without catching fire? The fans and the CD drive work fine, so the power supply is supplying power without any immediately obvious problem.) Monitors, keyboard, mouse.

My starting point: Beginning with the $500 Motion Design PC build...

CGDirector PC & Workstation Builder - CG Director

The CGDirector PC-Builder lets you quickly find the best Computer Parts for your PC & Workstation Build. Use cases include 3D-Modeling, Animation, Video-Editing, Motion Design and more.

www.cgdirector.com

...but with an upgrade to the CPU from the $700 build and dropping the SSD:

Upgraded CPU: CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($149.99)
Upgraded CPU Cooler: AMD Wraith Stealth Cooler (Included with CPU) (-)
Motherboard: MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX ATX AM4 ($114.99) (same for $700 build)
GPU: AMD Radeon RX 560 4GB XFX ($129.99)
Memory: 16GB (2 x 8GB) HyperX Fury DDR4-3200 C16 ($60.97)
Storage: Already have.
Power Supply: Corsair CX Series CX450M 450W ATX 2.4 Power Supply ($69.99) (same for $700 build; may not need - see above)
Case: Fractal Design Focus G Mid Tower Case ($45.99)
Total: $571.92 ($501.93?)

So I guess my starting question at this point would be, is there an upgrade path from this to, say, a $1,500 build? Or higher?

CGDirector PC & Workstation Builder - CG Director

The CGDirector PC-Builder lets you quickly find the best Computer Parts for your PC & Workstation Build. Use cases include 3D-Modeling, Animation, Video-Editing, Motion Design and more.

www.cgdirector.com

And, if so, what components can readily be upgraded and which should I spend more on now?

Is it practical to upgrade the CPU later on? And, if so, will the motherboard need to be upgraded as well? (If the latter, I think this will require a new case, as it is bigger.)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 3.9GHz 8-Core Processor ($339.99)
CPU Cooler: (Included with CPU) (-)
Motherboard: ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus ATX AM4 ($179.99)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case ($98.99)

I assume upgrading the GPU is *probably* not going to be a problem?

GPU: Nvidia GTX 1660TI 6GB - Gigabyte Windforce ($399.99)

I don't think I need to ask about RAM (although I note the cheaper motherboard maxes out at 64GB).

I also like the upgraded 1TB SSD and 1TB NVME SSD, and I'm not sure whether the cheaper motherboard supports the latter.

It's starting to sound like I might be making the case for going large on the CPU/[motherboard,case]. But I'm past my zone of perceived competence at this point.

Sorry for the novel; I appreciate any comments on what I've come up with so far.

 

[David Heizer]

Oh, yeah - I'm in the U.S.

 

[Jerry James]

CGDirector PC & Workstation Builder - CG Director

The CGDirector PC-Builder lets you quickly find the best Computer Parts for your PC & Workstation Build. Use cases include 3D-Modeling, Animation, Video-Editing, Motion Design and more.

www.cgdirector.com

...but with an upgrade to the CPU from the $700 build and dropping the SSD:

Upgraded CPU: CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600AF 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($149.99)
Upgraded CPU Cooler: AMD Wraith Stealth Cooler (Included with CPU) (-)
Motherboard: MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX ATX AM4 ($114.99) (same for $700 build)
GPU: AMD Radeon RX 560 4GB XFX ($129.99)
Memory: 16GB (2 x 8GB) HyperX Fury DDR4-3200 C16 ($60.97)
Storage: Already have.
Power Supply: Corsair CX Series CX450M 450W ATX 2.4 Power Supply ($69.99) (same for $700 build; may not need - see above)
Case: Fractal Design Focus G Mid Tower Case ($45.99)
Total: $571.92 ($501.93?)

So I guess my starting question at this point would be, is there an upgrade path from this to, say, a $1,500 build? Or higher?

CGDirector PC & Workstation Builder - CG Director

The CGDirector PC-Builder lets you quickly find the best Computer Parts for your PC & Workstation Build. Use cases include 3D-Modeling, Animation, Video-Editing, Motion Design and more.

www.cgdirector.com

And, if so, what components can readily be upgraded and which should I spend more on now?

Is it practical to upgrade the CPU later on? And, if so, will the motherboard need to be upgraded as well? (If the latter, I think this will require a new case, as it is bigger.)

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 3.9GHz 8-Core Processor ($339.99)
CPU Cooler: (Included with CPU) (-)
Motherboard: ASUS TUF Gaming X570-Plus ATX AM4 ($179.99)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro ATX Full Tower Case ($98.99)

I assume upgrading the GPU is *probably* not going to be a problem?

GPU: Nvidia GTX 1660TI 6GB - Gigabyte Windforce ($399.99)

I like the build you came up with, there's definitely an upgrade path in there. Before I suggest tweaks, I need a bit more info What kind of work will you be doing exactly? More of working on 3D apps or more of rendering? And how did your old machine perform when it came to those tasks?

 

[David Heizer]

Hi, Jerry, thanks for the reply!

To be honest, it's been tough choosing; at DAVE we learned it all - from modeling to animation to fluid sims to comp - and I enjoyed them all, but I finally settled on comp (which also includes all the others, to one degree or another). So I chose the "Motion Design" track to work in here.

The reality is, I kind of want a "good at everything" machine , and find that "Turbo Boost" innovation exciting. I'm attempting to re-start a career that got put on hold when I was forced back into Word Processing eight years ago, so I'm working with a good deal of "I don't know yet, I'm re-finding my way" right now. While I'm looking to land some bread-and-butter freelance gigs (I'm constantly seeing things in commercials that I know from experience would not be terribly hard), I'd also like to be able to experiment with destruction sims, fluid sims, massive instancing, ZBrush, Marvelous - and of course not waiting hours per frame for GI rendering is also a big plus. But bottom line probably would be breezing through comp software like Nuke or After Effects, being able to scrub through a hundred-frame comp without constant re-rendering.

On the one hand, my old machine was doing okay, and on the other hand my software was woefully out-of-date and my projects were not large. Keeping an eye on what people are doing these days, I was pretty sure my old machine would be sluggish, which is why I was getting used to the idea of building a new one. I'm pretty sure almost anything I build today would be a vast improvement (I spent about $800 on the parts back then).

So, having thought about it more, it seems to me that perhaps the question I should be starting with might be, what kind of upgrade path can I hope for from something in the price/functionality range of the Ryzen 5 (or whatever the Intel equivalent is) - how far "up" can I swap the CPU (and of course gradually other components as well) a year or so down the road, and what kind of decisions now would enable that to happen (like the right initial mobo choice, etc.)? Is that a strategy that makes sense?

 

[Alex Glawion]

So, having thought about it more, it seems to me that perhaps the question I should be starting with might be, what kind of upgrade path can I hope for from something in the price/functionality range of the Ryzen 5 (or whatever the Intel equivalent is) - how far "up" can I swap the CPU (and of course gradually other components as well) a year or so down the road, ...

Hey David,
A B550 or X570 Motherboard will allow you to most likely upgrade to a couple of next gen CPUs in the future. So you could easily get a R5 3600, and upgrade to a current gen R5 5600X or even next gen R5 6600X(?).

For Compositing and Motion Design, you really need high clocks and single core performance more than anything else. Sure, you do render out the occasional comp or preview, but that too benefits from high clocking cpus (e.g. After Effects).

If you can get your hands on a current gen R5 5600X, that would perform extremely well. The R5 3600 is decent too, but anything below that (1600, 2600) you'll find has noticeably lower performance in active workloads.

As far as your PSU is powerful enough you can also easily upgrade your GPU without any issues.

 

[David Heizer]

Hey, Alex,
Thanks so much for the great advice - it's that nugget of gold that showed me where to study up this evening.

I've settled on the Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard - I actually settled on it before finding it recommended on this site, so that's gratifying!

That mobo has the added advantage of having the ATX form factor, which I understand means I can re-use my current case!

I'm sitting on the fence about whether to go lower than the R5 5600; I can't help but imagine that even the 1600 would have to run rings around whatever chip I had eight years ago, no? I may be willing to put up with less-than-optimal performance for a time. Still mulling.

That just leaves the graphics card to settle on. I'm not entirely convinced I couldn't squeak by without one. (I could add it after if I'm wrong.) Does After Effects/other comp software make heavy use of GPU? I read on this site that Nvidia has the best support, am I remembering that right?

So here's my current bare-bones el-cheapo build (allowing for the possibility of nudging a couple of factors upward):

CPU: AMD YD1600BBAFBOX Ryzen 5 1600 65W AM4 Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler (149.99)
Alt: R5 3600 ($230)
Cooler: Included
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 (189.99) (this is where I'm splurging some)
GPU: [TBD] (~$2-300?)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz C16 DDR4 DRAM Memory Kit (129.99) (another little splurge)
Storage: Already have
Power Supply: Already have
Case: Already have
Total: $~470-850

Any adjustments/caveats/suggestions for GPU?

I appreciate your help!

 

[Alex Glawion]

GPU Render Engines tend to support Nvidia more often than AMD GPUs, Adobe Apps too usually perform better with CUDA capable Nvidia GPUs. This might change in the future, but right now, Nvidia is the way to go for content creation workloads.

Take a look at a 1660 Super or Ti which should be about in your price-range.

Rest of the build looks great!

 

[David Heizer]

Hi, Alex,

Thanks for the invaluable advice! I'm about ready to purchase!

If I could just pursue one question a little further...

While I can't tell exactly what CPU I had (I just now took a look, and it seems securely glued to the cooling unit), based on the most recent motherboard (I still have the manual), it has to be one of the CPU families from 2012:

Athlon II
Athlon II X2
Athlon II X3
Athlon II X4
FX-Series
Opteron 3300 series
Phenom II X2
Phenom II X3
Phenom II X4
Phenom II X6
Sempron
Sempron X2

I don't properly understand the actual improvements between CPU families - I don't really understand, clock speed the same, the functional difference between, for example, a Ryzen 3 and a Ryzen 5 both at 2.5 GHz, but it's my understanding that the higher numbers are better performance.

My question is, am I likely to be right in guessing that a Ryzen 5 1600 will still likely be a noticeable improvement over any of the chips from eight years ago listed above? (Whatever I had, it wasn't top of the line.) If it's better than I had, but not yet the best, I think I can live with that for now before upgrading next year. On the other hand, if it's more likely than not to be a step backward, then I will cough up the funds to bump it up now.

I truly appreciate your input on this. Last question, then I'm off to the races!

 

[Alex Glawion]

Yes you'll see considerably higher performance than your older chips. The 1600 is about 2,5 times as fast in multi-core workloads, and about 1,5 times as fast in single core workloads compared to the best in your list there.

 

[David Heizer]

That's awesome, thanks! I definitely didn't have "the best" (although, I was told, pretty decent), so I'm going to guess 2x, which is fine for me right now - since you've educated me on how to ensure a dynamite upgrade in the future!

Thanks again, and I will keep you posted! Going to be ordering shortly (through this site, natch)...